--- Log opened Thu Nov 10 00:00:29 2005
00:05 >> #punt JOIN noiv (n=noiv@xdsl-213-196-254-124.netcologne.de)
00:08 < maurizioSA> dpatton: hi Dave, Martin told me. Glad to see you around
00:10 < maurizioSA> dpatton: I must still experiment on it's own (i.e. without WW). I must download the whole config.
00:10 < dpatton> you can save yourself some download time and just copy the files from WW 1.3.2
00:12 < dpatton> just grab a copu of your existing Addons, Cache, Config, Data, Plugins, and Scripts directories and put them somewhere, and then point Punt at the copies
00:13 >> #punt JOIN [1]noiv (n=noiv@xdsl-213-196-246-147.netcologne.de)
00:13 < maurizioSA> dpatton: I actually pointed everything to 1,32 (which is the version for te SA schools)
00:13 < dpatton> let me know if you're interested in doing a Punt translation to Afrikaans :-)
00:13 >> SignOff: [1]noiv (Client Quit) [#punt]
00:14 < dpatton> it should work, subject to the limitations listed in the release notes
00:14 < maurizioSA> dpatton: I have been thinking about it.
00:14 < dpatton> there are only 532 peices of text to be translated ;-)
00:15 >> #punt JOIN [1]noiv (n=noiv@xdsl-213-196-246-147.netcologne.de)
00:15 < dpatton> I'll have a Punt webpage later today or tomorrow giving an overview of what's required to do a translation
00:17 < maurizioSA> dpatton: I already downloaded gettext but I have no clue what to do with it
00:17 < dpatton> you don't need gettext to do translations :-)
00:18 < maurizioSA> that's good.
00:18 < dpatton> If you want to download something that you will need: http://www.poedit.org/
00:18 * dpatton thinks he should get that webpage about translations written sooner rather than later...
00:20 < maurizioSA> On Friday and Saturday we have meetings between us. If I can give precise instructions I think I can get a translation real quick
00:22 < dpatton> ok - I'll add the webpage within the next 16 hours, and then if you have more questions, feel free to ask here, or email me
00:23 < maurizioSA> And on 17 I have to give a presentation of World Wind South Africa at http://www.gissa.org.za assembly
00:23 < maurizioSA> I could show punt in afrikaans as well
00:23 < dpatton> The process is quite simple - the "work" is actually doing the typing of the translated strings
00:23 < dpatton> they might appreciate that :-)
00:24 < maurizioSA> more than you can imagine
00:24 < dpatton> gissa.org.za = not found?
00:25 >> SignOff: [1]noiv (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Leading Edge IRC") [#punt]
00:28 >> SignOff: noiv (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) [#punt]
00:30 < maurizioSA> http://www.gissa.org.za is working fine
00:34 < dpatton> maurizioSA: it's not working here, and the W3C validator can't find it either(500 Can't connect to www.gissa.org.za:80 (Bad hostname 'www.gissa.org.za')), so there must be some sort of DNS problem
00:37 < Bull_[UK]> cant connect here either
00:37 < maurizioSA> Geo-Information Society of South Africa
00:38 < maurizioSA> Mission
00:38 < maurizioSA> To represent the GI Community in South Africa as national unified representative body in order to promote the interests of its members on all forums.
00:38 < maurizioSA> Aim
00:38 < maurizioSA> GISSA aims to unify everyone in South Africa who has an interest in the Geo Information Science, and act as an umbrella body for individuals, organisations and Special Interest Groups.
00:39 >> dpatton is now known as dpatton_away
00:40 < Bull_[UK]> sounds cool
00:51 < Nowak> mashi: here ?
01:56 * maurizioSA says goodnight
01:57 >> SignOff: maurizioSA () [#punt]
02:39 >> Bull_[UK] is now known as Bull_[Zzz]
05:20 < dpatton_away> Nowak: when you asked "mashi: here?" it was 2AM for mashi :-)
05:20 >> #punt JOIN adamhill (i=adamhill@ppp-70-242-26-241.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net)
06:14 >> SignOff: nhv (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) [#punt]
06:15 >> #punt JOIN mazop (n=mazop@212.183.13.231)
06:15 >> #punt JOIN nhv_ (n=nhv@dsl0-1.cape.com)
06:15 < mazop> morning all...
06:15 < mazop> mashi here ?
06:18 < mazop> hi norman
06:18 < mazop> anyone here has the link to nowaks log for #punt ?
06:41 >> SignOff: Llynix (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) [#punt]
06:55 < Nowak> dpatton_away: it was 2am for me too so ? :D
07:40 >> nhv_ is now known as nhv
08:03 >> adamhill is now known as _dreaminofjeanni
09:46 >> SignOff: _dreaminofjeanni (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) [#punt]
09:46 >> #punt JOIN _dreaminofjeanni (i=adamhill@ppp-70-242-26-241.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net)
10:36 >> SignOff: ChanServ (Shutting Down) [#punt]
10:44 >> #punt JOIN ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
10:44 >> NetHack #punt "+o ChanServ" by irc.freenode.net
10:50 >> #punt JOIN TheBeanie (n=thebean@82-45-7-251.cable.ubr02.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk)
11:02 >> SignOff: ShaunW (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) [#punt]
11:07 >> SignOff: TheBean (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) [#punt]
13:10 >> #punt JOIN T_Servo_Work (n=c6d0fb17@70.84.174.194)
13:11 < T_Servo_Work> hey mashi, you about?
14:05 >> #punt JOIN noiv (n=noiv@xdsl-81-173-227-38.netcologne.de)
14:06 >> #punt PART noiv (n=noiv@xdsl-81-173-227-38.netcologne.de) ()
14:29 >> #punt JOIN nhv_ (n=nhv@dsl0-1.cape.com)
14:45 >> SignOff: nhv (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) [#punt]
14:49 >> nhv_ is now known as nhv
15:40 >> TheBeanie is now known as TheBean
15:48 >> #punt JOIN adamhill_work (n=86a3fd7f@70.84.174.194)
16:02 >> #punt JOIN ShaunW (i=shaun@sluggo.nceas.ucsb.edu)
16:04 >> #punt JOIN dpatton (n=dpatton@S01060011950c1533.vc.shawcable.net)
16:05 < mazop> hi dave....slept long today? ;)
16:05 < dpatton> mazop: hi - yes - "slept in" until 8AM
16:06 < dpatton> mazop: are you going to send me that email we talked about?
16:06 < mazop> nope.....too busy with other stuff i didnt touch the last days ;)
16:07 < adamhill_work> any ETA on when source code will be in SF?
16:11 < dpatton> adamhill_work: it's already there in a ZIP, and will be in SF CVS for 1.4.0 alpha2, which we hope to have out by next week
16:22 >> SignOff: dpatton_away (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) [#punt]
16:34 >> #punt PART mazop (n=mazop@212.183.13.231) ()
16:47 >> #punt PART dpatton (n=dpatton@S01060011950c1533.vc.shawcable.net) ()
16:48 >> #punt JOIN dpatton (n=dpatton@S01060011950c1533.vc.shawcable.net)
16:53 >> #punt JOIN Llynix (n=Miranda@worldwind/developer/llynix)
16:57 < mashi> hi!
17:01 < adamhill_work> hey mashi
17:09 < mashi> hey adamhill_work!  dumdum will probably get it soon ;)
17:11 < mashi> Nowak: !?
17:11 < mashi> T_Servo_Work: !?
17:18 < T_Servo_Work> mashi: know anything about the alpha Transparency settings?
17:18 < T_Servo_Work> or where I can actually find information on them written in human language?
17:20 < mashi> tell me more while I reboot my brain?
17:20 < T_Servo_Work> I am working on a tour of how to use the DX9 transparency settings
17:21 < T_Servo_Work> but I can not find anything good on what stuff like DestinationBlend is.. or what the settings do
17:24 >> Bull_[Zzz] is now known as Bull_[UK]
17:26 < T_Servo_Work> thi is not much help for me:
17:26 < T_Servo_Work> DestinationBlend Property
17:26 < T_Servo_Work> Contains a member of the Blend enumeration that represents the destination blend.
17:30 < dpatton> DX9 introduced the ability to have separate blending formulas for the
17:30 < dpatton> alpha channel and the color channels.
17:30 < dpatton>     Color                   Alpha
17:30 < dpatton>     AlphaBlendEnable        SeparateAlphaBlendEnable
17:30 < dpatton>     SourceBlend             AlphaSourceBlend
17:30 < dpatton>     DestinationBlend        AlphaDestinationBlend
17:30 < dpatton>     BlendOp                 AlphaBlendOp
17:30 < dpatton> "Blending" is just a way to combine source and destination values with
17:30 < dpatton> a formula.  With DX9 you can combine the alpha channel differently
17:30 < dpatton> from how you combine the color channels.
17:32 < Nowak> mashi: ?
17:33 < dpatton> Nowak: I guess you know the IRC logs are broken?
17:33 * dpatton waits for Nowak to ask mashi if black transparency is in Punt yet ;-)
17:34 < Nowak> hehe, not broken broken, just no autoindexes :D
17:35 < Nowak> http://www.worldwindcentral.com/chat/irclog/
17:38 < dpatton> now you just need to change it so that the most recent log is listed first :-)
17:39 < Nowak> lol, cant
17:39 < Nowak> unless i write php script to do that
18:12 < T_Servo_Work> dpatton: Well, again.. that tells me nothing and makes it hard for me to write a tutorial :P
18:13 >> #punt JOIN mazop (n=mazop@dsl-156-150.utaonline.at)
18:15 < dpatton> I haven't looked at it in any detail, but it seems fairly straightforward to me - if the DestinationBlend property is used, it specifes how to blend the source and destination images, based on which of the Blend enumeration values is specified by DestinationBlend
18:24 < T_Servo_Work> yea, I figured that much out... but I am trying to explain this to peopel that would never normally see something like this, this way
18:34 >> SignOff: T_Servo_Work (Remote closed the connection) [#punt]
18:38 >> #punt JOIN T_Servo_Work_ (n=c6d0fb17@70.84.174.194)
18:38 >> T_Servo_Work_ is now known as T_Servo_Work
18:53 < mashi> T_Servo_Work: Please start with a simple question?
18:53 < adamhill_work> T_S: the best I think you can do is pick an area and cycle through the settings and *show* what happens and try to explain it that way
18:53 < adamhill_work> like barnacle9's Hawaii examples
18:54 < adamhill_work> i would start with just two layers thoug
18:54 < dpatton> well, I don't feel so alone any more - NASA nas now removed WW CVS commit access for both me and mashi
18:54 < dpatton> has now
18:55 < dpatton> and, as before when they removed my access, it is done with no notice or explanation
18:56 < mashi> Why am I not surprised? :)
18:58 < dpatton> it just reinforces what someone said the other day - NASA World Wind may be Open Source, but it's not Open Development
18:59 < adamhill_work> i am poling the bear as we speak
18:59 < adamhill_work> -l +k
19:00 * mazop *very* frightend about being the next - even when i never submitted code.....
19:00 < mashi> other inactive devs like dhumpohl are still on the list... coincidence?
19:02 < mashi> anyway I guess we won't be applying fixes to WW now? :)
19:02 < adamhill_work> well, were you going to?
19:03 < adamhill_work> dpatton seemed to indicate "No" in #mapserver
19:05 < adamhill_work> Bueller, bueller, bueller....
19:09 < dpatton> All I'm going to say about this is that before Punt's CVS is setup, there will be a "CVS policies" webpage, and that removal of people's commit priviledges for Punt's CVS will be handled differently than has been done for WW CVS.
19:15 < T_Servo_Work> Hard to explain what I don;t funnly understand
19:15 < Bull_[UK]> well you and mashi both said you wouldnt be working on WW anymore, chris has removed cvs acces for non-active devs in the past and has always said if people want cvs privallages just ask, and I have yet to see him say no to anyone
19:15 < T_Servo_Work> and no one seems to fully understand it at all... it just "works"
19:23 < adamhill_work> T_S: you just have to take two layers, maybe topo (since it is mainly white) and something else, see what happens and reverse explain it (changing opacity and such) to show how it works
19:25 < T_Servo_Work> Already done that for the most part
19:25 < T_Servo_Work> But I have no idea HOW I did it though  :)
19:26 < T_Servo_Work> other than changing this and that and looking at what happens.. and that is a piss poor wat to teach someone how to do somrthing
19:26 < T_Servo_Work> s/wat/way
19:33 < adamhill_work> ah, T_Servo_Work I pointed barnacle9 to "The Art and Science of Compositing" at Amazon, it is a "Search Inside" book so you can read it 4 pages at a time :) but if you do a search you can find juicy explanitory bits
19:35 >> SignOff: T_Servo_Work (Remote closed the connection) [#punt]
20:00 >> #punt JOIN f0urtyfive (n=noone@pcp0010984341pcs.ivylnd01.pa.comcast.net)
20:00 >> #punt PART f0urtyfive (n=noone@pcp0010984341pcs.ivylnd01.pa.comcast.net) ()
20:03 < TheBean> [7:30pm] <Bull_[UK]> erm chris sent an email to the dev list ages ago asking for our ideas on CVS policy no-one replied
20:03 < TheBean> [7:16pm] <dpatton> All I'm going to say about this is that before Punt's CVS is setup, there will be a "CVS policies" webpage
20:03 < TheBean> ...
20:04 < TheBean> Was stupid for Chris to remove privs without asking though...
20:04 < TheBean> stupid/rude
20:06 < dpatton> I disagree, only in that it's "their project"(regradless of what the OS community thinks), so NASA doesn't need to _ask_, but, to be polite, they could ask first, and even if they don't, it would be polite to inform people when they have been removed, and why
20:11 >> #punt JOIN mazo1 (n=mazop@dsl-156-150.utaonline.at)
20:16 < TheBean> dpatton - I agree, he should've asked
20:16 < TheBean> regardless of a written policy or not
20:16 < TheBean> Well unless the policy said don't ask :p
20:24 >> SignOff: mazop (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) [#punt]
20:26 >> SignOff: mazo1 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) [#punt]
21:49 >> SignOff: Bull_[UK] (Excess Flood) [#punt]
21:56 >> #punt JOIN Bull_[UK] (i=MeGA@worldwind/user/bull)
22:15 >> #punt JOIN noiv (n=noiv@xdsl-81-173-227-38.netcologne.de)
22:18 * noiv has started to compile plugin for punt. Anybody can help on:
22:18 < noiv> property 'ServerGetMapUrl' cannot be declared 'Overrides' because it does not override a property in a base class
22:19 < noiv> or Type 'WorldWind.Terrain.TerrainAccessor' is not defined
22:19 < dpatton> noiv: what are you trying to do?
22:19 < dpatton> plugins written for World Wind have to be modified to work with Punt
22:20 < noiv> Yes, but how. Can't find my objects.
22:20 < dpatton> I'll be adding a webpage with some examples - later today or tomorrow
22:21 < noiv> Couldn't you give me THE hint, that I can help myself?
22:21 < dpatton> start by changing all references to "WorldWind" to "Punt", but don't change "WorldWindow"
22:21 < noiv> I did already
22:21 < noiv> has helped a bit..
22:22 < noiv> Can I asume objects are nor renamed?
22:22 < noiv> not
22:22 < noiv> ^
22:22 < noiv> :)
22:22 < dpatton> there is something you haven't changed, because it's still looking for the WorldWind namespace: WorldWind.Terrain.TerrainAccessor
22:23 < dpatton> no, you can't assume that
22:23 < dpatton> what plugin are you working on?
22:24 < noiv> wmsInterface
22:25 < mashi> hi noiv!
22:26 < noiv> hi mashi
22:26 < Bull_[UK]> mashi are you gonna make a VE plugin for punt? ;)
22:26 < mashi> yes, the first error is perhaps because it can't find the type?
22:26 < mashi> Bull_[UK]: did anyone figure out how to convert coordinates <-> url?
22:26 < noiv> I have all WW stuff in one file starting with:
22:26 < noiv> Imports WorldWind
22:26 < noiv> Imports WorldWind.Menu
22:26 < noiv> Imports WorldWind.Renderable
22:26 < noiv> Imports WorldWind.Terrain
22:26 < dpatton> noiv: have you downloaded the Punt source?
22:27 < noiv> now I have:
22:27 < noiv> Imports Punt
22:27 < noiv> Imports Punt.Menu
22:27 < noiv> Imports Punt.Renderable
22:27 < noiv> Imports Punt.Terrain
22:27 < noiv> Whats wrong ?
22:27 < Nowak> btw. what does punt mean ? :P
22:28 < dpatton> Nowak: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_Punt
22:28 < Bull_[UK]> mashi - dont think so shock was getting close I think, Selar is looking at it now
22:28 < Bull_[UK]> you need a !punt trigger
22:28 < noiv> dpatton: no sources yet, but have reflector
22:29 < noiv> imports means using in c#
22:29 < dpatton> yeah, I guessed that ;-)
22:30 < mashi> noiv: on your class do you have an "inherits WorldWind.xxxx" ?
22:30 * noiv searches
22:30 < dpatton> somewhere in your source you must have a reference to the WorldWind namespace
22:32 < noiv> mashi: better 14 error dropped :)
22:39 < noiv> no more 'WorldWind' in Sources.
22:39 < noiv> now at 26 error
22:39 < noiv> errors
22:40 < noiv> like: Type 'WindowsControlMenuButton' is not defined.
22:40 < noiv> @ Private btnToolbar As WindowsControlMenuButton
22:41 < adamhill_work> noiv: WMS does not use/cannot use the proxy classes in WW that Giles wrote, correct?
22:43 < noiv> Don't know this proxy classes, did I missed something ? :)
22:44 < noiv> or: RenderableObjects' is not a member of 'Punt.World'
22:44 < noiv> @ wwCurWorld.RenderableObjects.Add(wwWmsRoot)
22:45 < noiv> where : Private wwCurWorld as World
22:47 < noiv> strange also: 'GetObject' is not a member of 'Punt.Renderable.RenderableObjectList
22:52 < mashi> noiv:  replace GetObject with myList[xx]
22:53 < mashi> adamhill_work: I noticed dumdum didn't use the ww download code in NRL - I know you said WMS
22:54 < mashi> he also forgot (again) that not all people use "." for decimal separator (= WW NRL code doesn't work over here)
22:54 < mashi> noiv: sorry for messing with toolbarbuttons
22:55 < mashi> Punt.Menu now has a ToolbarButton:
22:55 < mashi> 		/// <summary>
22:55 < mashi> 		/// Initializes a new instance of the <see cref= "T:Punt.Menu.ToolbarButton"/> class.
22:55 < mashi> 		/// </summary>
22:55 < mashi> 		/// <param name="iconTexturePath">Path/filename of toolbar bitmap</param>
22:55 < mashi> 		/// <param name="targetObject">The object to control from this button</param>
22:55 < mashi> 		/// <param name="onOffPropertyName">The name of the boolean property to control via this button.</param>
22:55 < mashi> 		public ToolbarButton(string iconTexturePath, object targetObject, string onOffPropertyName)
22:57 < adamhill_work> yeah, he said NRL was written a long while back, even before Giles' code got written, then it got stuck on back burner
22:57 < adamhill_work> chris is getting the I18N mojo finally though
22:59 < adamhill_work> 1.1 made it annoying to use, it worked but was a PITA to dot all the i's and cross all the t's
23:03 < dpatton> I18N can easily be done using .Net 1.1, by using gettext :-)
23:07 < noiv> Mashi: with ToolBar button: Function isPushed is dropped, but now there is Property Pushed, right?
23:07 < mashi> had to check.. you're right
23:09 < noiv> Yeah, down to 14 errors now :)
23:16 < mashi> Fixed: save options does not work with sky color(noiv)
23:16 < mashi> Fixed: free look camera is default setting(bull)
23:16 < mashi> thanks!
23:18 < Bull_[UK]> :)
23:23 < mashi> and also replaced altova code (layer xml files) with .net XmlSerializer - saves 400kByte and makes it possible to add tags to the config files
23:26 < mashi> I know dpatton is skeptical - he wants to be 100% compatible, which I can understand.  But this way we can both be compatible and add stuff like transparency settings (nowak), multiple servers (fourtyfive?) etc..
23:27 < mashi> in my tests it looks like WW simply ignores unknown tags
23:27 < mashi> noiv: done yet? ;)
23:29 < dpatton> my main concern about compatability was that for people to take a look at Punt, it will make it easier if it works with WW 1.3.2/1.3.3 config and data
23:30 < dpatton> eventually Punt may not be compatable, but we would likely provide a means to "import" existing WW settings, so there would be an upgrade path for WW users
23:30 < noiv> I have three or four issues: Look here:
23:30 < noiv>     	  Alt = ourPlugin.Parent.WorldWindow.DrawArgs.WorldCamera.Altitude
23:30 < noiv>     	  ourPlugin.Parent.WorldWindow.GotoLatLonHeadingAltitude (Lat, Lon, 0, Alt)
23:31 < noiv> makes ->  Value of type 'Punt.Distance' cannot be converted to 'Double'
23:31 < noiv> in first line
23:32 < mashi> Alt.Distance (maybe we should have an implicit conversion?)
23:32 < mashi> sorry.. Alt.Metres
23:33 < adamhill_work> well that was the idea in XML, deal with the tags you know about and ignore the rest like the IFF file spec
23:34 < dpatton> noiv:
23:34 < dpatton> do it like this:
23:34 < dpatton> 			if(camera.Altitude > new Distance((float)100e3)) return;
23:34 < dpatton> 			Distance fred = camera.Altitude + new Distance((float)camera.WorldRadius);
23:34 < dpatton> 			double distToCenterOfPlanet = (double)fred.Metres;
23:35 < Llynix> adamhill_work:  PM
23:36 < noiv> dp: thx will copy and check later
23:36 < noiv> Have RenderableObjects a new name ?
23:37 < mashi> no, still Punt.Renderable.RenderableObject
23:38 < noiv> But does world have ROs
23:39 < noiv> Doing this:
23:39 < noiv>       wwWmsRoot = New RenderableObjectList(sRootname)
23:39 < noiv>       wwCurWorld.RenderableObjects.Add(wwWmsRoot)
23:39 < noiv>       wwWmsRoot = DirectCast(wwCurWorld.RenderableObjects.GetObject(sRootname), RenderableObjectList)
23:39 < noiv> error inline 2
23:41 < mashi> oh.. World.Layers and World.ActiveLayers
23:41 < noiv> ??
23:41 < mashi>  wwCurWorld.Layers.Add(wwWmsRoot)
23:43 >> #punt JOIN nht (n=80f4ca47@70.84.174.194)
23:43 < noiv> Down to nine :)
23:44 < noiv> Again ToolbarButton: How is he added to WHAT ?
23:46 < noiv> Have used 'AddToolsMenuButton' before.
23:48 < mashi> worldWindow.ToolBarMenu.AddToolButton(
23:52 < mashi> hi nht!
23:52 < noiv> BoundingBoxOverlap was always zero, is not used anymore?
23:52 < nht> Hi there!
23:53 < nht> Heh, now I know why you were so quiet for a while. :)
23:53 < mashi> no references to it in the code so I guess it was removed
23:53 < noiv> good idea!
23:53 < noiv> was confusing me a lot:)
23:55 < noiv> 3 errors left: again GetObject vs. myList[xx]
23:55 < noiv> ro = wwWmsRoot.Layers.myList(Key)
23:56 < noiv> or
23:56 < noiv>         Dim lay as noiv.wmsInterface.wmsTranslucentQuadTileset
23:56 < noiv>         lay = DirectCast(wwWmsRoot.GetObject(Key), noiv.wmsInterface.wmsTranslucentQuadTileset)
23:56 < noiv>         Return lay.wms
23:57 < mashi> nht: I have been really busy working on an insurance project this autumn (now coming to an end).  dpatton has done most of the work so far
23:57 < noiv> and #2:
23:57 < noiv> 'Initialize' overrides a sub in the base class 'QuadTileSet' that is not declared 'Overridable'.
23:58 < noiv> and #3:
23:58 < noiv> property 'Pushed' cannot be declared 'Overrides' because it does not override a property in a base class
23:59 < mashi> #2: just remove "override"?
23:59 < dpatton> nht: mashi is being modest - Punt wouldn't exist without him :-)
--- Log closed Fri Nov 11 00:00:30 2005