--- Log opened Sat Dec 10 00:00:25 2005
01:15 >> Bull_[UK] is now known as Bull_[Zzz]
03:34 >> #punt PART nosilleg (n=nosilleg@222-152-179-115.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) ()
04:37 >> nelson_ is now known as nelson
07:36 >> SignOff: adamhill (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) [#punt]
09:02 >> #punt JOIN mazop (n=mazop@dsl-71-59.utaonline.at)
09:07 < mazop> g'morning all...
09:08 * mazop gets ready for watching ski-worldcup .....
09:27 < mashi> goooooood morning!
09:32 < mashi> and you think Austria will win eh?
09:48 < mazop> hopefully mashi....since lasse isnt there....he makes trainings in norway ;)
09:50 * mazop austrian leads so far.... :)
09:52 < mashi> :D
09:53 * mazop svindal on the way :P
09:53 < mashi> heh
09:55 < mazop> too bad. he lost 0.8 secs...hehe
10:31 < mazop> ohh.....1st.2nd,3rd = austrians ;)
10:31 < mazop> mashi here ?
10:32 < mashi> hey!
10:32 < mashi> Congratulations!
10:32 < mashi> It wasn't unexpected ;)
10:32 < mazop> right ;)
10:32 < mazop> skiing=austrian national sports ;)
10:32 * mashi nods
10:33 < mazop> yesterday i read all the "punt-to-do-list"....
10:34 < mazop> Bugs: delete entry 1 , it works now......
10:34 * mazop not sure why, but works... ;)
10:34 < mashi> checking
10:35 < mashi> oh.. hmmm..
10:35 < mashi> strange
10:35 < mazop> i have pointed punt to WW directories...(just plugins are using it own dir) .....and everything works on my end
10:40 < mazop> bugs...point 4 (transparency):  now i can set what i want in layerproperties --> nothing changes, even when i set transparency/opacity to 10 ;)
10:42 < mazop> BM/BMNG isnt mapped to terrain now, right?....but here i cant realize any improvements  (free ressources) in rendering or so. so if it doesn't effect anything, just let BM/BMNG map to terrain......
10:43 * mazop maybe this is the reason for the opacity/transparence issue i heve now.....
10:43 < mashi> ok!
10:44 < mashi> ahhh! I found a bug in the transparency
10:44 < mashi> thanks!
10:45 < mashi> but that will just bring back the problem when trying to use both opacity & transparency.. have to try and fix that too
10:45 < mazop> hmmmm....always the same......if something got fixed....another thing breaks ;)
10:45 < mashi> :D
10:46 < mashi> Patrick already completed the minimap thing?  I got mail from him, but haven't been on the forums lately
10:46 < mazop> and this one i just want to let you know too: "* reprocess "Placenames"(e.g. better organization, don't use "geonet", etc.)"
10:47 < mazop> last week i got a customer who wans something like a geocoder-application.....
10:47 < mazop> ....and i do the placename-thing for him....
10:47 < mazop> so this work we could also embed into Punt maybe....
10:48 < mashi> coool!
10:48 < mazop> pat's minimap....i mean 'globeicon' .... is nice ;)
10:49 < mazop> see the legend :P http://www.dynagis.net/wwdownload/work/temp/picww_geonet_names_screenshot.jpg
10:50 < mazop> but also 'geonet' included in this datasets......
10:50 < mazop> otherwise you dont get 3 million placenames for populated places.....
10:50 < mazop> ....or you pay alot for that data....
10:52 < mashi> oh.. man!
10:53 < mashi> that's a LOT!
10:53 < mazop> i thought about doing a 'startup-placenames-package' for punt. it would hold two sections a)undersea b)land ....... and for land maybe only continents-subcontinents-countries-administrative regions-capitals-maincities ......
10:53 < mashi> cool!
10:54 < mashi> undersea - never thought of that! nice
10:54 < mazop> that would be a hmmmm.... i guess just a 5-8 MB thing we could maybe deliver with punt as default......
10:54 < mazop> all other placenames=extra download...
10:55 < mashi> perfect!
10:55 < mashi> would be
10:55 < mazop> i am working on it...... but will take some more time because i am still fighting with the MicroStation thing ;)
10:56 * mazop which has to be done first
10:56 < mazop> so mashi: whats about the BM/BMNG ??
10:57 < mazop> have you brealized any improvements on your end since they did not get mapped to terrain ?
11:00 < mashi> I guess not..
11:00 < mashi> time to turn terrain back on?  I guess we should make it BMNG configurable?
11:00 < mashi> not hard coded
11:00 < mashi> I don't get why Chris made BMNG a plug-in?
11:01 < mazop> right....
11:02 < mashi> Off topic: you have/use/need  Global Mapper v7.02?  (just stumbled over it)
11:02 < mashi> http://www.globalmapper.com/
11:03 < mashi> (I mean regged version)
11:03 < mazop> he did it because of....hmmmm....menu for changing the month ??
11:03 < mashi> but it's too slow? ;)
11:04 < mashi> or is it just my PC?
11:04 < mazop> no...its slow here too....
11:09 < mazop> what box are you using ?
11:12 * mazop has to leave for now...... later
11:12 >> #punt PART mazop (n=mazop@dsl-71-59.utaonline.at) ()
11:13 < mashi> AMD 2500 Barton, Radeon 9800SE
11:13 < mashi> see you later
11:14 < mashi> I'll try to punt a little ;)
11:14 < mashi> thanks for input
11:29 >> #punt JOIN mazop (n=mazop@dsl-66-153.utaonline.at)
12:09 >> SignOff: mazop ("--> /join #real-life") [#punt]
12:10 >> #punt JOIN mazop (n=mazop@dsl-66-153.utaonline.at)
12:45 >> #punt PART mazop (n=mazop@dsl-66-153.utaonline.at) ()
13:25 >> #punt JOIN ShockFireD (i=ShockFir@d80206.ktwaalre.nl)
13:52 >> SignOff: ShockFire (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) [#punt]
13:57 >> ShockFireD is now known as ShockFire
14:34 >> #punt JOIN nhv (n=nhv@dsl0-1.cape.com)
14:35 >> SignOff: nhv (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) [#punt]
14:36 >> #punt JOIN nhv (n=nhv@dsl0-1.cape.com)
14:41 >> SignOff: nhv (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) [#punt]
14:41 >> #punt JOIN nhv (n=nhv@dsl0-1.cape.com)
14:53 >> dpatton_away is now known as dpatton
15:20 >> SignOff: nhv (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) [#punt]
15:20 >> #punt JOIN nhv_ (n=nhv@dsl0-1.cape.com)
15:24 >> SignOff: nhv_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) [#punt]
15:25 >> #punt JOIN nhv_ (n=nhv@dsl0-1.cape.com)
15:29 >> #punt PART dpatton (n=dpatton@S01060011950c1533.vc.shawcable.net) ()
15:35 >> SignOff: nhv_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) [#punt]
15:36 >> #punt JOIN nhv_ (n=nhv@dsl0-1.cape.com)
15:37 >> #punt JOIN dpatton (n=dpatton@S01060011950c1533.vc.shawcable.net)
15:39 >> nhv_ is now known as nhv
15:59 < dpatton> reminder: informal meeting about Punt in here in 2 hours
16:27 >> #punt JOIN hokie (n=engmike@n134s216.ntc.blacksburg.shentel.net)
16:28 >> Bull_[Zzz] is now known as Bull_[UK]
16:29 < hokie> what makes punt different then ww?
16:29 < mashi> open source development?
16:30 < hokie> so punts sorta based on worldwind, like firefox is based on mozilla suite code?
16:30 < dpatton> WW is an "open source" project, but it's not "open development"
16:30 < dpatton> Punt already has things WW doesn't, such as being Internationalized
16:31 < Bull_[UK]> hi mashi, waterlily asked if you could email her sometime
16:31 < hokie> first i've heard of it
16:31 < hokie> sounds good though :-)
16:31 < mashi> thanks bull!
16:31 * hokie reads up on it
16:32 >> Mode #punt "+o dpatton" by ChanServ
16:33 * Bull_[UK] hides
16:34 >> Topic change on #punt by dpatton: Meeting today(Saturday, December 10, 2005) at 18:00:00 UTC to discuss Punt 1.4.0beta1 release.  Punt TO-DO list: http://punt.sourceforge.net/files/temp/Punt-To-Do-public.txt   http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?year=2005&month=12&day=10&hour=18&min=0&sec=0&p1=0&sort=1
16:34 >> Mode #punt "-o dpatton" by ChanServ
16:35 < dpatton> don't worry Bull - just changing the topic to add a link to the Punt to-do list: http://punt.sourceforge.net/files/temp/Punt-To-Do-public.txt
16:36 < Bull_[UK]> :)
16:41 >> dpatton is now known as dpatton_away
16:56 < mashi> reminder: informal meeting about Punt in #punt in 1 hour
17:02 < ShockFire> that's going to be tough, I've been in here for nearly 14 days and I still haven't joined :)
17:04 < Bull_[UK]> heh
17:24 >> SignOff: nhv (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) [#punt]
17:25 >> #punt JOIN nhv (n=nhv@dsl0-1.cape.com)
17:33 >> #punt JOIN adamhill (i=adamhill@adsl-70-136-51-174.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
17:38 >> dpatton_away is now known as dpatton
17:54 >> #punt JOIN mazop (n=mazop@dsl-91-146.utaonline.at)
17:54 < mashi> Welcome people to the second Punt meeting
17:55 * mazop uff....in time....
17:55 < dpatton> not for 2 minutes ;-)
17:57 < dpatton> Hi everyone - time for our informal meeting
17:57 < dpatton> The "informal agenda" for our "informal meeting":
17:57 < dpatton> - status of 1.4.0beta1 development
17:57 < dpatton> - what should be in 1.4.0beta1
17:57 < dpatton> - translation issues
17:57 < dpatton> - installer issues
17:57 < dpatton> - other stuff
17:57 < dpatton> status of 1.4.0beta1 development
17:58 < dpatton> mashi and I are each working on a couple of things that we want to finish before we would release 1.4.0beta1
17:59 < dpatton> that includes some bugs with Blue Marble Next Generation, and with slow framerates at times when using Placenames
17:59 < dpatton> we may also want to add a few more things into Punt, and/or fix a few bugs ;-)
18:00 < dpatton> mashi: anything to add?
18:00 < mashi> yes
18:01 < dpatton> oh, and for now, you can look at the Punt To-Do list here: http://punt.sourceforge.net/files/temp/Punt-To-Do-public.txt
18:01 < dpatton> (that won't be it's permanent home)
18:01 < mashi> no, really just want to fix as many bugs as possible, and then get the first version out before adding any new features
18:03 < mashi> but I still want to hear about new features...
18:03 < mazop> mashi: with bugs you mean the bugs on the todo-list ?
18:04 < dpatton> we haven't decided if there will be a "beta2", or a date for a "feature freeze" in CVS before Punt 1.4.0 is released
18:04 < mashi> mazop: and those that aren't yet on the list?   You got a long list I presume? ;)
18:05 < dpatton> for now, if we find bugs, or someone tells us, then we add them to the to-do list, or we fix them 'right away'
18:05 < mazop> no mashi, not this time ;)...so BM/BMNG, placenames and trancparency/opacity is enough challenge for now i guess ;)
18:06 < dpatton> Lets move on to "what should be in 1.4.0beta1"
18:06 < mashi> an installer?
18:07 < dpatton> aside from "fix all bugs", what features "must be" in Punt 1.4.0?
18:07 >> #punt JOIN Selar (n=hussain@wire86.dsl.frii.net)
18:07 < dpatton> I mean things "in" Punt
18:07 < mashi> owww.. the Moon?
18:07 < mazop> and meassure-tool(s)...
18:08 < dpatton> I'm thinking that, if possible, Punt 1.4.0 should have any feature that's in WW 1.3.3.1, except shapefile support
18:08 < dpatton> however, that doesn't mean that 1.4.0beta1 has to meet that goal
18:10 < mashi> should the default install come with plugins?  I think for most users installing plugins manually is too "difficult".
18:11 < dpatton> do we want users who don't understand "unzip here"? ;-)
18:11 < Bull_[UK]> yup I would add stars and other essentials
18:11 < mazop> bull: right ;)
18:13 < dpatton> Until we have an installer, we should NOT include plugins, because they don't belong in the same place as the Punt executable
18:13 < mashi> no? what if they're compiled into the executable? ;)
18:13 < Nowak> another patrick ? gah :D
18:13 < dpatton> however, I don't see anything wrong with making available a ZIP of 'essential plugins'
18:13 < mashi> if it's a separate zip I think it gets difficult again :)
18:14 < dpatton> if a plugin is "compiled into the executable", then it's not a plugin ;-)
18:15 < Bull_[UK]> lol its an internal plugin
18:16 < mazop> building an installer for addons and plugins which search automaticly for the right place to install would be easy/possible to do. but than i think punt would need the same dir-structure like WW = plugins and addons-dir are subdirs of the application .....imo better than storing under 'userdata'......
18:16 < dpatton> without an installer, Punt defaults to the user's Application Data roaming directory for "data", including plugins, so it makes no sense to put plugins into a ZIP file that's going to be unzipped into the user's 'Program Files' directory
18:17 < dpatton> mazop: no, that will never be Punt's default location for "data"
18:17 >> #punt JOIN _42 (n=r2d2@phpfreak.mysqli.com)
18:18 < mazop> dave: do you really think that the very 'normal' Win-User know how to handle it if more users are using the same box and want to share there cache-data ?
18:18 < dpatton> I have no problem with an installer that asks "where should I install "stuff" - in your application data directory, or underneath the Punt program directory"
18:18 >> SignOff: nhv (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) [#punt]
18:18 < mashi> I agree mazop it makes things more difficult, but at the same time writing data in program files is a "Microsoft Windows Logo violation"
18:19 * mazop maybe just i think that manymany Win-Users are ....hmmm... stupid?
18:19 >> #punt JOIN nhv (n=nhv@dsl0-1.cape.com)
18:19 < adamhill> there is a Shared Files sytem folder
18:19 < dpatton> mazop: I'm just saying that Punt's _default_ will never be to put things under the program directory
18:20 < dpatton> mazop: many Win-Users are "stupid", but if they looked, they would see that software they are already using stores it's data in their roaming directory :-)
18:21 < dpatton> of course they don't know what "roaming" means, and may never use it,but that doesn't mean it's wrong to store their data there
18:21 * nhv can't stand software that he can't remove from his system with a simple remove folder  :-)
18:22 * Bull_[UK] feels the same as nhv
18:22 < dpatton> then for punt, nhv would install all the Punt-related files under one folder
18:22 < dpatton> unlike WW, with Punt you have complete control over where things are stored
18:22 < mazop> i dont know TOO much about installers (searching for reg-keys to find automaticly the right 'place/dir' to install there).....so i dont know if an installer can also could find automaticly the path forinstalling propper......
18:23 < nhv> this implies no reg keys  :-)
18:23 < _42> yeah hmm, i cant even seem to start 1.4-a2 on xp
18:23 < _42> uncaught exception it seems
18:23 < mazop> nhv: i dont have you on the list of stupin Win-Users ;)
18:24 < mazop> stupin=stupid
18:24 < dpatton> nhv: so far, the only use of the Windows Registry by Punt is for the association of URI schemes - there's no other way to do that
18:25 < dpatton> _42: can you hold on for a bit until we finish this meeting? Or jump over to #punt-dev?
18:26 < dpatton> mazop: for an installer to "find where things currently are located" you have two options - search the entire system(not a reasonable option), or look in a "known location" for 'where to start'
18:26 < mazop> or do it simply with help of reg-keys ;)
18:26 < dpatton> for example, the "known location" is often a registry key, but could be a specific file in a specific location
18:27 < dpatton> registry keys make Norman mad ;-)
18:27 * nhv is already *mad*  oh you meant angry  :-)
18:27 < dpatton> :-)
18:27 < mazop> i think that one reason of being successful (wide spreading) of GE is fe., that the klm-files are so easy to 'install' for users.....i mean...they do not even have the feeling, that they install something....they just use it.....
18:28 < dpatton> So are we done with the "what should be in 1.4.0beta1" topic?
18:28 < dpatton> "translation issues"
18:29 < dpatton> I just wanted to remind translators that there will be some new strings that need translating for 1.4.0beta1
18:29 < dpatton> Also, anyone know of anyone who's interested in doing any additional translations for Punt?
18:30 < mazop> what languages we have here ??
18:31 < dpatton> I'm working with the maintainer of GNU gettext to try and be able to build Windows binaries of gettext, and if that succeeds, then translators will be able to do their own generation of DLL files from PO files, so they can immediately test their translations
18:31 < mazop> me=german=done ;)
18:31 < dpatton> me = English = done ;-)
18:31 < mazop> piotr=french=done
18:31 < mazop> mashi=norway=done
18:32 < mazop> any other languges here ??
18:32 < mazop> schockfire=dutch=will do ?  ;)
18:32 < dpatton> my sister may work on a Spanish translation, but it wouldn't be ready any time soon
18:33 < dpatton> mazop: wasn't your 'laptop friend' going to do Dutch?
18:33 < mazop> my dutch friend got a new laptop and plays with it like crazy.....
18:33 < mazop> so i will have to point him to the dutch translation again ;)
18:33 < dpatton> Maurizio may be able to arrange an Africaans translation
18:34 < dpatton> moving on...
18:34 < dpatton> "installer issues"
18:35 < dpatton> this goes back to what we were talking about a few minutes ago
18:35 < dpatton> We really need an installer for Punt - then it's "easy" to include things like plugins
18:36 * mazop agrees
18:36 < mashi> all we need is an installer wizard?
18:36 < dpatton> I've installed NSIS, and taken a quick look, but for now, I want to work on "Punt development", not "Punt installer" :-)
18:37 < mazop> isnt ShockFire the 'installer-guy' ?
18:37 < mashi> apparently Dave was not this wizard :)
18:38 * dpatton Dave just doesn't want to use up his Wizard powers on NSIS right now ;-)
18:39 < dpatton> anything more about "installers"?
18:39 < mazop> i just have made an 'installer' for punt to can hand it to 'stupid' Win users....but its just a nice 'unzipper' for now (which doesnt write any reg-keys.......norman would like that ;)
18:40 >> SignOff: nhv (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) [#punt]
18:40 < dpatton> bye Norman ;-)
18:40 < mazop> wait 10 sec and he will be back ;)
18:40 < dpatton> last item - "other stuff"
18:41 >> #punt JOIN nhv (n=nhv@dsl0-1.cape.com)
18:41 < mazop> ohhh....just 7 secs this time ;)
18:41 < dpatton> hmmm - shall we mention "those things in the reg....." and see if Norman leaves again? ;-)
18:41 < mazop> hehe
18:43 < dpatton> only "other stuff" thing I can think of is that sometime soon(when I get the time) I'll setup the SourceForge CVS with some more modules, and checkin things like the POT/PO/DLL language files, and the files used for the Punt website
18:43 < mashi> JIRA?
18:43 < dpatton> basically try and get everything to do with Punt into CVS so it's available to everyone
18:43 * mazop would LOVE a JIRA
18:43 < dpatton> oh yeah - we have a JIRA license for Punt
18:44 < mazop> yes ? nice !
18:44 < dpatton> problem is, although I asked them first(they didn't seem to know), we can't run JIRA on SourceForge
18:44 < dpatton> (I mean I asked Atalassian)
18:45 < mashi> Atlassian
18:45 < dpatton> so, to make use of JIRA, we would need a server to host it
18:47 < dpatton> ok - end of meeting?
18:48 < mashi> what? no volunteers?
18:48 < mazop> seems so
18:48 < mashi> ok.. ;)
18:48 * mazop ....... would really like to have JIRA
18:48 < dpatton> thanks everyone for participating :-)
18:48 < mashi> next meeting? ;)
18:49 < dpatton> _42: what's the problem you are having?
18:49 < dpatton> next meeting 2005/12/25 ;-)
18:49 * mazop   hmmmm....why everybody is so restrained......
18:52 * mazop thought everybody was waiting for a non NASA administrated JIRA some times ago
18:52 < mazop> anyway..... see you later all ....
18:52 < dpatton> bye Martin
18:53 >> mazop is now known as mazop_away
18:53 < dpatton> _42: here?
19:01 >> #punt PART hokie (n=engmike@n134s216.ntc.blacksburg.shentel.net) ()
19:02 < Selar> leave #punt
19:03 >> #punt PART Selar (n=hussain@wire86.dsl.frii.net) ()
19:03 < Bull_[UK]> lol
19:04 < _42> Yes
19:04 < _42> I extracted the archive into D:\Punt
19:04 < _42> Executed punt.exe
19:04 < _42> And got an RTE "uncaught exception"
19:08 < dpatton> do you have .Net 1.1, DirectX 9.0c installed? Also, you need Managed Direct X installed - run dxdiag
19:11 < _42> 9.0c, 1.1, i dont see anything about managed directx in dxdiag however
19:12 < dpatton> does dxdiag list a bunch of file that start with Microsoft.DirectX ?
19:25 < _42> No
19:28 < dpatton> ok - that means you don't have Managed DirectX installed
19:30 < dpatton> download this file: http://punt.sourceforge.net/files/Punt1.4.0alpha2-MDX.zip
19:30 < dpatton> unzip it into the same directory as Punt.exe
19:31 < _42> excellent
19:31 < _42> :-)
19:31 < _42> thank you
19:35 < dpatton> that's a "temporary fix" - 1.4.0beta1 will handle it a bit differently
19:56 >> SignOff: nhv (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) [#punt]
19:57 >> #punt JOIN nhv (n=nhv@dsl0-1.cape.com)
20:05 >> #punt JOIN Tim_B (n=tim@cpe-24-27-10-114.austin.res.rr.com)
20:12 >> #punt PART Tim_B (n=tim@cpe-24-27-10-114.austin.res.rr.com) ("Leaving")
20:25 >> mazop_away is now known as mazop
20:29 >> SignOff: nhv (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) [#punt]
20:29 >> #punt JOIN nhv (n=nhv@dsl0-1.cape.com)
20:53 >> #punt JOIN piotr` (n=Jean_FIL@AOrleans-152-1-5-79.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr)
21:10 >> SignOff: piotr`PoP (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) [#punt]
21:45 >> SignOff: nhv (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) [#punt]
21:46 >> #punt JOIN nhv (n=nhv@dsl0-1.cape.com)
22:34 >> #punt PART mazop (n=mazop@dsl-91-146.utaonline.at) ()
23:32 >> Bull_[UK] is now known as Bull_[Zzz]
--- Log closed Sun Dec 11 00:00:20 2005