--- Log opened Thu Sep 01 00:00:58 2005 19:11 >> #worldwind-meeting JOIN nht (n=45f35543@pinky.worldwindcentral.net) 19:28 >> #worldwind-meeting JOIN gillesk (n=gillesk@p54A38FEB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 19:43 >> #worldwind-meeting JOIN Vigilant (n=8fe8566f@worldwind/nasa/Vigilant) 19:43 >> Mode #worldwind-meeting "+o Vigilant" by ChanServ 19:43 <@Vigilant> Duh? 19:45 >> #worldwind-meeting JOIN ShockFire (i=Tim@d80206.ktwaalre.nl) 19:48 >> #worldwind-meeting JOIN adamhill (n=adamhill@c-24-1-149-167.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) 20:03 >> #worldwind-meeting JOIN nosilleg (n=nosilleg@222-153-174-41.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) 20:03 >> SignOff: Vigilant (Remote closed the connection) [#worldwind-meeting] 20:08 >> #worldwind-meeting JOIN Bull_[UK] (i=MeGA@worldwind/user/bull) 20:08 >> Mode #worldwind-meeting "+o Bull_[UK]" by ChanServ 20:12 >> nosilleg is now known as nosilleg_away 20:16 >> Topic change on #worldwind-meeting by Bull_[UK]: Agenda - http://www.worldwindcentral.com/wiki/Community_Meeting_2005-09-01 20:26 >> #worldwind-meeting JOIN T_Servo (n=chatzill@205.208.133.109) 20:30 * Bull_[UK] hums 20:32 < T_Servo> hmms more 20:32 < nht> Heh. 20:32 >> #worldwind-meeting JOIN mazop (n=mazop@81.189.81.47) 20:33 >> #worldwind-meeting JOIN patrick-nlt (n=8fe8562c@pinky.worldwindcentral.net) 20:33 >> Mode #worldwind-meeting "+o patrick-nlt" by ChanServ 20:33 >> #worldwind-meeting JOIN Vigilant (n=8fe8566f@worldwind/nasa/Vigilant) 20:33 >> Mode #worldwind-meeting "+o Vigilant" by ChanServ 20:34 <@patrick-nlt> alice in wonderland 20:34 <@Bull_[UK]> lol 20:34 <@Vigilant> <-fool 20:34 <@patrick-nlt> ah a room with a view of laughter 20:34 < T_Servo> hehe 20:34 < T_Servo> need to laugh.. gas is 3.20 now 20:34 <@patrick-nlt> so what's the beating we need to take today 20:34 < T_Servo> it's killed my plans to drive in and see my grandfather 20:34 < T_Servo> loading the meeting page 20:34 <@patrick-nlt> ah for the good old glory days of reveling in work 20:35 < T_Servo> FYI patrick.. we may really soon have Katrina NOAA imagery in WW 20:35 <@Bull_[UK]> not much on the agenda 20:35 >> Mode #worldwind-meeting "-o Bull_[UK]" by Bull_[UK] 20:35 < T_Servo> nhv and nowak are working with mangocrate 20:35 < gillesk> Evening all ... 20:35 < T_Servo> slow internet for me 20:35 < Bull_[UK]> howdy 20:35 < T_Servo> heya gilles 20:35 <@patrick-nlt> that would be about as sexy a sight as i can imagine, NWW and NOAA 20:36 < T_Servo> yea 20:36 <@patrick-nlt> weather is key to making this thing rock 20:36 < T_Servo> noaa only has 2 people to do all the imagery work... so we are taking a huge load off them 20:36 <@patrick-nlt> a load that makes ours feel lighter 20:36 <@patrick-nlt> joy! joy! 20:37 <@patrick-nlt> is there some place that this NOAA activity is being tracked? 20:37 < T_Servo> ok, ready to begin? 20:37 <@patrick-nlt> maestro, if you please 20:37 < T_Servo> Status report on 1.3.3 and 1.4. 20:38 <@patrick-nlt> RAndy? 20:38 <@patrick-nlt> or moi? 20:38 < Bull_[UK]> hey guys, I'm not sure I'll be able to make the meeting 20:38 < Bull_[UK]> [20:22:10] but I'd like to discuss things right now 20:38 < Bull_[UK]> [20:22:21] and perhaps someone can post my comments at the meeting if needed 20:38 < Bull_[UK]> [20:22:51] for item 1), the status of version 1.3.3 is on track for a release on sept. 19th 20:38 < Bull_[UK]> [20:22:56] major features include: 20:38 < Bull_[UK]> [20:23:01] shapefile support 20:38 < Bull_[UK]> [20:23:03] new terrain engine 20:38 < Bull_[UK]> [20:23:12] NRL Real-time weather 20:38 < Bull_[UK]> [20:23:21] new 500m Blue Marble mosaics 20:38 < Bull_[UK]> [20:23:49] what are we doing about TS and BM/no BM problems? 20:38 < Bull_[UK]> [20:23:52] 3 new landsat mosaics (NLT Pseudo, Geocover 1990, Geocover 2000) 20:38 < Bull_[UK]> ;) 20:39 <@Vigilant> thx bull 20:39 <@Vigilant> Yeah, just a whole ton of stuff in 1.3.3, and thankfully most of it is done. 20:39 < Bull_[UK]> oh and 20:40 < Bull_[UK]> as for 1.4, from the looks of it, 1.4 will be skipped. 1.5 will be the next major release, and will effectively be an entirely different codebase. Details to come next week. 20:41 <@patrick-nlt> before it becomes " an entirely different codebase" we will be offering up the architectural design for your input 20:41 * Bull_[UK] looks for mashi 20:41 >> SignOff: Vigilant (Remote closed the connection) [#worldwind-meeting] 20:41 < nht> Do you have a time table? 20:41 <@patrick-nlt> the coding effort will be parcelled out to those interested in supporting the development 20:42 >> #worldwind-meeting JOIN Vigilant (n=8fe8566f@pinky.worldwindcentral.net) 20:42 >> Mode #worldwind-meeting "+o Vigilant" by ChanServ 20:42 <@Vigilant> (oops) 20:43 < Bull_[UK]> cool, we need to get more evs then, heh 20:43 <@patrick-nlt> we will probably need a month to have the tomato target in place 20:44 < nht> Thinking of a 1.3.4 or straight on to 1.5? 20:44 <@patrick-nlt> devs are always needed and welcome 20:44 <@patrick-nlt> we are trying to do a better job of the overall visibility for the acrhitecture so that devs can be more productive 20:45 <@patrick-nlt> we will jump to v1.5 in order to start clean and remove any chaos from former activities around 1.4 20:45 <@patrick-nlt> confusion with = chaos 20:45 < Bull_[UK]> cool good idea 20:46 <@patrick-nlt> Tom Gaskins will be 'architechting' this 'revised' effort to provide the kind of stucture a world-class programmming effort requires 20:47 <@patrick-nlt> especially an NASA Open Source Agreement one 20:47 <@patrick-nlt> http://www.codeproject.com/csharp/WMSOverviewAll.asp 20:47 <@patrick-nlt> http://today.java.net/pub/a/today/2005/08/16/earth.html 20:48 < T_Servo> ok, ready to move to next topic? 20:48 >> #worldwind-meeting JOIN dumdumhead (n=dumdumhe@c-67-170-228-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) 20:49 * Bull_[UK] wants SVS zooms in WW 20:49 >> SignOff: Vigilant (Remote closed the connection) [#worldwind-meeting] 20:49 >> #worldwind-meeting JOIN nhv (n=nhv@dsl0-1.cape.com) 20:49 * dumdumhead quietly crawls into the room 20:49 <@patrick-nlt> so dumdum will be losing coding time in coordinating the desing effort with Tom 20:49 <@patrick-nlt> and Randy will continue to lose all sense of time 20:50 >> #worldwind-meeting JOIN Vigilant (n=8fe8566f@pinky.worldwindcentral.net) 20:50 < Bull_[UK]> lol 20:50 <@patrick-nlt> while Bruce Wayne keeps the bats out of our servers 20:50 < Vigilant> (don't mind me) 20:50 < T_Servo> We ready for the next agenda? 20:50 <@patrick-nlt> next! 20:50 < T_Servo> Developers - What happened to them all, are they coming back. How can we get and keep them. (TomServo) 20:51 * Bull_[UK] shrugs 20:51 < Vigilant> Partially my fault. 20:51 <@patrick-nlt> that's a personal choice, we cannot satisfy everyone, we hurt, but we need to move forward 20:52 < T_Servo> *nods* 20:52 < nht> Back up a sec...is 1.5 intended to compatible with 1.3.x style plug ins? Will that be a design goal? 20:52 < Bull_[UK]> this isnt just an NLT issue though, we need better communication within the OS community itself imho 20:52 < T_Servo> No idea what is up with mashi though... I haven;t heard a peep from him in a few days 20:53 < dumdumhead> nht: that will not be a design goal 20:53 <@patrick-nlt> Tom and Chris will have their work cut out for them, but yest backward compatability is part of the target, how well we hit it is another thing 20:53 < T_Servo> well, anyway.. this is a deeper subject I think for another day 20:54 * Bull_[UK] nods 20:54 < T_Servo> move on? 20:54 < dumdumhead> nht: we will still try to have 'dynamically compiled plugins" though 20:54 < nht> Sure. Just want to have an understanding in terms of how to proceed with FY06. 20:54 <@patrick-nlt> 1.5 is intended to be compatible with 1.3.x style plug-ins 20:54 < T_Servo> chris: that is one of the best features of WW 20:55 <@patrick-nlt> but beware, some things will press the limits of that implementation 20:55 <@patrick-nlt> and go over the cliff 20:55 < dumdumhead> patrick-nlt: 1.5 will (99% sure) not allow the current 1.3.x plugins, but when we start using 1.5, plugins developed for 1.5 will work with 1.6 and future versions 20:56 < T_Servo> we have already been over the cliff, the view is great 20:56 < ShockFire> no they won't 20:56 <@patrick-nlt> so you see just how dynamic this process is 20:56 < ShockFire> you can't say anything about that now 20:56 < T_Servo> breaking plugin's? *twitch* 20:56 <@patrick-nlt> desire and reality do not always match the technology 20:56 * Bull_[UK] shudders 20:56 < dumdumhead> 1.5 will be designed from the ground up with the sole concept of maintaining backwards compatibility (but not 1.3.x stuff) 20:57 < nht> Heh. Well, that should probably be made fairly clear. I know that folks are excited about using WW for visualization and they'll likely start with 1.3.x. 20:57 < dumdumhead> its sounds bad, but it's really what has to be done. 1.3.x was not designed with this philosophy in mind 20:57 <@patrick-nlt> but the purpose of this design is to PREVENT that from ever happening again 20:57 < dumdumhead> 1.3.x was never designed to allow plugins. plugins were a hack 20:58 < Bull_[UK]> a good hack ;) 20:58 <@patrick-nlt> we just had our first telecon on the subject this morning , so i apologize for the confusion 20:59 < T_Servo> lets wait till 1.4 to talk deeper on plug-ins.. 20:59 < Vigilant> Hey, it wrecks my add-ons too. :) 20:59 < T_Servo> as shockfire said, too early now 20:59 < Bull_[UK]> hehe 20:59 < T_Servo> randy: you wreck you add-ons's 20:59 < T_Servo> fix the flag on, you hae the wrong ones over locations 20:59 < T_Servo> ok, ready for next subject? 20:59 < T_Servo> hmm 21:00 < Bull_[UK]> there can always be a plugin to allow 1.3.x plugins 21:00 < T_Servo> fix the flag add-on, you have the wrong ones over some locations 21:00 < nht> We can wail till we get to the 1.4 topic to continue :) 21:00 <@patrick-nlt> we intend to be a lot more visible on the architecture, this will help devs do what they do best (and it ain't talkin') 21:01 < nht> Its not a big issue (IMHO) at the moment. I just don't want to pitch WW and have to caveat it by saying "Everything you code today will have to rebuilt for 1.5" 21:01 < dumdumhead> there's a reason why there is a Quake 1, Quake 2, Quake 3...instead of a Quake Evolutionary 21:01 < Vigilant> I do? 21:01 <@patrick-nlt> we are not talking about different universes here, plus it increases employment opportunities 21:02 < T_Servo> randy: check the bugs forum 21:02 < Vigilant> drat. 21:02 < nht> Even our stuff isn't such a huge investment that its an issue...but between now and FY06 we'll have spent 250K on a developing a WW collaboration plugin. 21:02 < nht> Now I need to rethink about how to manage FY06 risks. 21:03 <@patrick-nlt> we've built a rolls royce, now we are trying to get an assembly line production going 21:03 < dumdumhead> I imagine 1.3.x code will be used well into next year, even if no significant advancements are made to that code base. I also imagine 1.5 will take 4-6 months to get releasable 21:03 < T_Servo> nht: whoa.. what ARE you working on?? 21:04 <@patrick-nlt> tdoing it right 21:04 < Bull_[UK]> nht - gimme a job :P 21:04 < nht> I have parts (most in alpha) that allows geo-spatial whiteboarding via Jabber (XMPP). Mostly hacks. :) 21:04 < T_Servo> chris: as long as we make it fairly painless to migrate the code 21:04 < ShockFire> yay for jabber 21:04 < dumdumhead> i don't think it'll be that bad 21:04 < T_Servo> if we are talking re-writes of all code.. that won;t float well 21:04 < T_Servo> anyway.. keeping on schedule: New tutorial's needed - New features, functions, hidden menues, etc (TomServo) 21:04 < nht> Heh..not that yay. :) I still need to code the transport layer so all I can do at the moment is draw pretty paths on WW. 21:05 < ShockFire> I actually quietly talked to mashi about XMPP WW 21:05 < dumdumhead> some things will be very different, but overall changes to simple plugins should be minimal 21:05 < dumdumhead> must plugins don't take long to code anyways. As long as the concepts are well understood, the implementation should be a small thing 21:05 < T_Servo> unless the coder is me chris 21:05 < T_Servo> >.< 21:05 < dumdumhead> =) 21:06 < T_Servo> shockfire refuses to help me anymore 21:06 <@patrick-nlt> tough love 21:06 < T_Servo> and adam is sticking pins ina voodoo doll now 21:06 < T_Servo> you mind stopiing now adam? 21:07 < dumdumhead> I'll try to make a T_Servo "proof" API. =D 21:07 < T_Servo> hehe 21:07 <@patrick-nlt> the everyman test case! 21:07 < nht> Heh 21:08 <@patrick-nlt> the common denominator (and missing link) 21:08 < nht> You haven't seen my code yet. Some isn't all that pretty. :) 21:08 < dumdumhead> we'll also try much harder this time to include the OS devs as the 1.5 design phase starts 21:08 < dumdumhead> it's important to get the OS input on this. Fresh starts don't happen every day... 21:09 < gillesk> The dev mailing list is probably the best way to do this IMHO 21:09 <@patrick-nlt> with all revealed, we won't be near as sexy anymore 21:09 < T_Servo> no, I already said Randy is not modeling the WW clothing line 21:10 <@patrick-nlt> hey, Randy can look pretty dapper at times 21:10 < nht> gillesk: probably...just getting my 2c in though while they are captive here. :) 21:10 < dumdumhead> gillesk: that's one way, but we'll need multiple ways to communicate 21:10 < dumdumhead> I'll at the very least try to maintain a good presence on IRC 21:11 < dumdumhead> and have updates as they come for the dev list 21:11 <@patrick-nlt> not like that bad ass Vigilant 21:12 <@patrick-nlt> any more agenda items? 21:12 < Bull_[UK]> just mirror support but we need matt for that 21:12 <@patrick-nlt> jessi must have arrived safety in Michigan 21:13 < T_Servo> Mirror support in WW - When are we going to add support for f0urty's mirror servers, 1.3.3 or 1.3.4? (Bull) 21:13 < Bull_[UK]> jessi is back in the US? 21:13 < T_Servo> last one 21:13 < T_Servo> Michigan? 21:13 < nht> chris, lets chat offline again to see if its worth the effort to do IWidget into 1.3.3 or if you folks prefer we help on 1.5. IInteractive seems to touch a lot. Dunno if I can get all that tested prior to the 19th. Plus I have my own deliverables to manage. 21:13 <@patrick-nlt> jessi was back in CA and off to MI yesterday 21:13 <@patrick-nlt> or was it the day before??? 21:13 < T_Servo> did not know she was coming to MI 21:14 <@patrick-nlt> Ann Arbor for her PhD at that wolverine place 21:15 < T_Servo> sheesh 21:15 < T_Servo> and no one bothers to tell me 21:15 < Bull_[UK]> lol 21:15 <@patrick-nlt> now you two have something to talk about! :) 21:15 < T_Servo> probably a good reason >.< 21:16 <@patrick-nlt> so Matt will handle the Mirrors, is that a wrap? 21:17 <@patrick-nlt> How is FEF doing? 21:17 < T_Servo> slow 21:17 <@patrick-nlt> but alive 21:19 <@patrick-nlt> thanks for the time, i hope that we will have more to share at the next meeting 21:19 <@patrick-nlt> ciao y'all 21:19 < T_Servo> later 21:19 >> SignOff: patrick-nlt (Remote closed the connection) [#worldwind-meeting] 21:19 < Bull_[UK]> bye 21:19 < Bull_[UK]> hmphh 21:19 < Bull_[UK]> ;) 21:20 < Vigilant> Ah yes, very exciting, etc. 21:20 >> #worldwind-meeting PART Vigilant (n=8fe8566f@pinky.worldwindcentral.net) () 21:20 < nht> Heh 21:21 < T_Servo> lol 21:22 < Bull_[UK]> we could probably do with a ommunity meeting sometime aboutwhat we can do to improve the OS team 21:22 < nht> How big is the OS team? 21:23 < Bull_[UK]> getting smaller 21:23 < nht> Was there a reason...I was out last week but it seemed okay then. :) 21:24 < Bull_[UK]> not sure, dpatton got pissed I think, mashi seems awol 21:24 < T_Servo> fool and shockfire are too busy to devote too much help 21:24 < nht> Yay. 1.4 compiled for me. 21:24 < dumdumhead> woo hoo 21:24 < T_Servo> adamhill was almost washed to sea 21:25 < dumdumhead> i think our OS team will get bigger, especially because 1.5 will be truly cross-platform 21:25 < nht> Hmmm...tease us will you. 21:25 < Bull_[UK]> opengl? 21:25 < Bull_[UK]> c++ 21:25 < dumdumhead> no C++ 21:25 * Bull_[UK] ducks 21:25 < Bull_[UK]> heh 21:25 < nht> Java? 21:25 < dumdumhead> yuck, hate that stuff 21:26 < T_Servo> hehe 21:26 < nht> Patrick had a link to a java site... 21:26 < dumdumhead> I think we'll try a MONO.NET project w/DX and OpenGL support 21:26 < dumdumhead> see how that goes 21:26 < Bull_[UK]> sweet 21:26 < dumdumhead> but we'll work on the details later 21:26 < T_Servo> bull: any idea how far nhv and nowak got on the katrina imagery? 21:26 < nht> 36..79 FPS...of course all its doing is rendering the Layer Manager... 21:26 < dumdumhead> I have a meeting with Tom Gaskins tomorrow morning to discuss our preliminary goals 21:26 < nht> 36.79 21:27 < dumdumhead> nht: it might be limiting itself 21:27 < Bull_[UK]> tom - nope, they went quiet 21:27 < T_Servo> really need TomG in here for one of these meetingsd 21:27 < dumdumhead> forgot if I put a timer in there 21:27 < dumdumhead> but, 36FPS, that sounds familiar 21:27 < nhv> sounds like my frame rate limiter 21:28 < nht> Ooops...unhanded Direct3D.DeviceLostException... 21:28 < T_Servo> heya nhv! 21:28 < nhv> running on a 72 hz system 21:29 < dumdumhead> i think my target was 36FPS 21:29 < T_Servo> nhv: made any headway on the noaa imagery? 21:29 < nhv> re katrina orthos we are looking at them now 21:29 < nhv> they need a lot of work as these are raw off the sensor stuff 21:30 < T_Servo> hehe 21:30 < nhv> know more tommorow 21:30 < T_Servo> yea, I fugured that 21:30 < T_Servo> cool 21:30 < T_Servo> I am going to be around now 21:30 * dumdumhead moves back the #worldwind 21:30 >> #worldwind-meeting PART dumdumhead (n=dumdumhe@c-67-170-228-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) () 21:30 < T_Servo> I can;t afford to drive into PA now 21:30 < nhv> won't take long once we have the processing chain we want to use figured out 21:31 < T_Servo> wonder how many images they have.. mango seemed to think there will be several days work pretty soon 21:31 < nhv> I certainly hope that DDHead is using a fracton of the local machines video refresh rate for his FPS Goal 21:31 < nhv> an even fraction 21:31 < nhv> later 21:31 >> #worldwind-meeting PART nhv (n=nhv@dsl0-1.cape.com) () 21:31 >> #worldwind-meeting PART T_Servo (n=chatzill@205.208.133.109) () 21:32 < gillesk> nite all! 21:32 >> SignOff: gillesk (" Like VS.net's GUI? Then try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-") [#worldwind-meeting] 21:32 < Bull_[UK]> gn gilles 21:38 >> #worldwind-meeting PART adamhill (n=adamhill@c-24-1-149-167.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) () 21:46 >> SignOff: mazop (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) [#worldwind-meeting] --- Log closed Fri Sep 02 00:00:56 2005